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About Nyasha:

Nyasha Green is incredibly talented, incredibly funny, amazing with words, and fiercely passionate (even zealous) about inclusion. In this episode it was sometimes difficult to stay on topic because I just enjoy talking to her that much. 🙂

What is your job title?Software Developer
What is your company name?
What do you do with WordPress?I develop WordPress sites
Describe the WordPress community in just a few words.Big, Innovative, And full of amazing cooks


Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to WPCoffeeTalk with your podcast barista Michelle Frechette. Special thanks to our sponsors WSS Forum and Beaver Builder. If you’re interested in joining WP Coffee talk as a guest or a sponsor, please visit our site at and now on with the show.

Speaker 1 00:00:20 Welcome back to the next episode of WPCoffeeTalk. I’m your podcast barista Michelle Frechette, and as the intro says, I’m serving up WordPress stories from around the globe. Today I am very honored to have a good friend of mine as my guest, Nayasha Green. Nayasha is a software developer extraordinaire, and she also, um, has been working with me and Allie Nimmons on some stuff over at underrepresented in tech, some things that are coming out very soon. So if you’re watching this episode or listening to this episode when we first launched it, it’s not out yet, but keep an eye on it and if you’re listening to it as evergreen content a year from now, we hope you loved it, <laugh>. But anyway, Nayasha, thanks for joining me today. How are you?

Speaker 2 00:01:02 I’m doing well. How are you, Michelle?

Speaker 1 00:01:05 <laugh> I’m good, thanks. It’s, uh, it’s seven. We’re both in the same time zone, which is nice. Yeah, it’s 7:15 PM on a Thursday night. Uh, Thursday. Yeah, this Thursday night. Oh my gosh. This week’s been crazy. And, uh, yeah, it’s, and I turned on my furnace, so There you go. <laugh>. It’s freezing. What? I’m so cold. Oh, wow. It’s like 65 degrees outside and I’m freezing, so

Speaker 2 00:01:27 That is like perfect temperature for me. It’s like, it’s been like 89 today here, so yeah,

Speaker 1 00:01:32 It’s, you’re gonna wanna bring a jacket when you come to work Camp Rochester, though. ’cause September 30th it’s gonna be getting chilly.

Speaker 2 00:01:37 Okay, awesome. I love the fall. So,

Speaker 1 00:01:39 <laugh>, make a, make a note. Make a note. <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Speaker 2 00:01:45 Yeah, so I am a software developer and I work primarily in WordPress. I’m also an instructor for LinkedIn Learning. Um, I have my course on blocks coming out, uh, probably the beginning of next year. Um, I am a mentor. I have over 40 mentees. I am trying to help get into tech all over the world. Um, I am the co-marketing rep for the Make Marketing team. So I am a WordPress contributor as well. And I am also a co-organizer for our Columbia South Carolina WordPress Meetup group. Woo. I’m co co co <laugh> of a lot of things, <laugh>. Um, so I do a lot. I do it all.

Speaker 1 00:02:25 So when you have co in front of your title all over the place, it just made me think of like when you used to get the, um, the report cards mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when you’re a kid, it says works well with others, so you must work well with others, which is a good thing. I do

Speaker 2 00:02:37 <laugh>. Yeah, I do. I get to work with you at, uh, u I T so that’s fun too. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 00:02:43 That’s all good stuff. Yeah, for sure. Um, so tell us about your mug and what’s in it today.

Speaker 2 00:02:48 So my mug is a inspired mug. I love those I that holiday. Um, I love, I can, I’m, I speak Spanish. Um, so Bueno. I love Spanish culture and I love, um, this holiday in particular. And I love the beautiful school decorations that you get.

Speaker 1 00:03:08 Yeah, I love that. It’s gorgeous.

Speaker 2 00:03:10 I’m drinking green tea tonight because this week has been long and it’s Friday almost,

Speaker 1 00:03:15 Almost almost Friday.

Speaker 2 00:03:16 Replace it with vodka. There

Speaker 1 00:03:18 You go. <laugh>. I know that feeling. Okay. So my, um, my mug I have today, I don’t think I’ve used it on the show before. It is a friend of mine <laugh>, and when the Wordle craze went crazy mm-hmm. <affirmative> created a little shop. Now it’s not technically Wordle ’cause it’s four letter words instead of five letter words. And if you are easily offended, look away now. But this is my mug,

Speaker 2 00:03:41 <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:03:43 And if you’re just listening, it says Tank corn, sick duck, and then the F word at the bottom where it’s all green. I love it. So isn’t that fun? And I have That’s awesome. Mint tea in my mug tonight. So sipping along with you. So, um, tell us how did you get started in WordPress?

Speaker 2 00:04:00 So I, uh, was learning how to code on my own first. Uh, I was self-taught through free code camp on, uh, free code camp org, which is great, phenomenal, uh, place for everybody to learn how to code for free. And then I got into a program, um, it’s not a thing anymore, but it was a program and it was specifically launched to bridge the gap between underrepresented people, um, and the status quo in tech. So I got into the program and got a full grant to learn code, and then they also set me up with a internship where I learned WordPress development.

Speaker 1 00:04:34 That’s very cool. How long ago was that?

Speaker 2 00:04:39 Four years now. Four. Okay. Five. What year is it? <laugh>, almost five years. Oh my god. <laugh>

Speaker 1 00:04:46 Time does fly, that’s for sure. <laugh>. Yeah. That’s awesome. Um, when you look at websites, whether they’re stuff that we’ve built, you’ve built whoever’s built, but when you look across like the web universe mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what’s something that you think that we as web builders don’t focus enough attention on or skip altogether that would actually make, um, our websites better user experience for those people who are site visitors?

Speaker 2 00:05:12 Uh, I know this is probably a common one, but accessibility. Yeah. And the reason I’m saying accessibility is one, because we want to make our websites accessible for everybody. You want as many people as possible to be able to visit and use your website. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but also a good point that is constantly being brought up. And I heard it recently again, doing one of the u I t, um, talks. If you make a page or a website accessible, everybody benefits, not just people who may need extra accessibility. Yeah. Uh, software or things like that, like everybody benefits. And, um, a specific thing that, uh, I didn’t know about until I got into deep into WordPress coding was like walls of text on pages mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it’s been coming up, especially in client conversations lately. Like, people are like, like, nobody’s reading this. And it’s like, it’s also bad for accessibility. So maybe if it was accessible, you know, you could kill two birds with one stone. Sorry for that. That, uh, no

Speaker 1 00:06:07 <laugh>,

Speaker 2 00:06:07 But yeah. So

Speaker 1 00:06:08 It’s definitely, we’re, we’re not really killing birds. It’s okay. The birds still live. <laugh> birds. Me too. Me too. Um, no, but that’s so true, right? So there’s, I used to, I’m not gonna name names and put throw anybody in the bus, but I used to use a pa a page builder that the default text was a gray. Now it’s a little like, not even, I wouldn’t even say charcoal gray, like a lighter, a little bit lighter than charcoal gray and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, I mean, I’m not old, but I’m not young either. And has like, why is it like, it looks like it’s size eight font in like the faintest gray. Like, I, I need more than that <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, and if I visit your site and I can’t see it, I’m gonna open up the inspector, I’m gonna change the font color on every page that I look so I can actually read it.

Speaker 1 00:06:52 But not everybody knows how to do that. So I think that, you know, that you really hit the nail on the head that when you do make your site accessible, it everybody does benefit for sure. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, and if you don’t think that you need personally, not you, but the, the site builder, um, needs any accommodations at this point, imagine yourself 30, 40, 50 years down the road where you wish you’ll wish that other people were taking that into account as well, because our eyes don’t last. Especially when you’re sharing, staring at a screen all day.

Speaker 2 00:07:20 Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 00:07:22 Right. Like crazy. So, yeah. No, I agree with you a hundred percent. There are so many things that we all should focus on, but accessibility should be absolutely. Be right at the top of that list.

Speaker 2 00:07:30 Yes.

Speaker 1 00:07:32 So, I don’t know how long you’ve been in tech, right? So we’re talking WordPress maybe five years. Um, what is something that in your journey, whether it’s your business journey, your WordPress journey, your coding journey, what’s something that you wish you’d known earlier that would’ve made life a whole lot easier?

Speaker 2 00:07:53 Um, it’s a lot of things actually, but no, I wish that I would’ve known. I, I don’t wanna say how easier because it’s not easy. I wish I would’ve known how, how good and how how good WordPress WordPress tech makes it or web development makes it to start your own business. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I was somebody who’s, I’ve always been afraid of starting my own business. I’ve done freelance work, but it was usually still under the direction of somebody like, Hey, I have this project for you. It was never like, it was never like me controlling my own work. And I wish that I know I, I’d known sooner that I could control my own work myself, um, a lot sooner because I let myself be underpaid and undervalued in too many places. Mm-hmm. So that’s one thing I wish I would’ve known sooner.

Speaker 1 00:08:43 That makes a lot of sense. Um, I, I have told the story before, I don’t think I’ve told it in a while. You may not have heard it, but when I first started freelancing, I thought I was raking in the dough by charging $300 for an entire brochure website. Hmm. Like, and when somebody came to me and they said they needed a, an e-commerce site, I thought I was really making out when I charged ’em 500. And that was only 10 years ago. Like, it’s, it’s not that long ago. Right. I’m not talking about like, when the internet was first dawned upon. So Yeah, no <laugh> I agree. Not only could you make your own business, but having the, the, for the, the, I can’t think of the right word, but the, the foreknowledge or whatever to ev actually like, pick some people’s brains and find out what pricing is and mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 00:09:27 <affirmative> some of those things so that you don’t undermine yourself. ’cause it’s so easy, it’s easy to discount, it’s a lot harder to raise prices for people. Yes. Right. So mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I’m with you on that. I think that’s a, that’s a good lesson for everybody. Like pay attention, right? <laugh>. Yes. When you think back over the WordPress events that you’ve attended, whether it’s um, you know, a word camp, a meetup, some other event, um, what is, like, if you think about some of the, your favorite word camp or meetup experiences, was there like one of those pivotal moments? I like to say like, the clouds opened and the birds sang and the angels were there with their little floppy wings and you were like, oh, okay. Maybe not that dramatic, but yeah. Was there <laugh>, what’s a moment that was really pivotal moment for you?

Speaker 2 00:10:12 That’s another question where I have a lot. So I, I was like, I have to narrow, narrow it down <laugh> and I wanna

Speaker 1 00:10:17 Talk about, we, we got time,

Speaker 2 00:10:19 <laugh> <laugh>, I wanna talk about, uh, this recent work camp us. Um, so I’ve been to a few and this, I’ve never been like, I guess not in the right head space to be at one. I’ve always been really psyched for, I’ve always been really prepared. Um, but since I have gone through so much in the last few months, I was not really mentally prepared, um, for this word camp. And I think there were, there were two moments and they were kind of connected ’cause they, there was one person in common with both of them. But, um, I was trying to find my place in the WordPress community. I didn’t know if I still wanted to do development work because I did get laid off and I had really bad imposter syndrome. Um, but I didn’t know what else I could do. I could do, ’cause as you heard earlier, I do a lot <laugh>, but what I should do, and, um, I went to Aida Jackson’s talk, she’s wonderful by the way.

Speaker 2 00:11:16 And she was talking about like, you know, being a non-developer in the community and some of the things she touched on, they were things I just never really thought about. And it made me think, I don’t know if she knew this, but she made me think about all these incredible people in the community that are not just wearing multiple hats like I am, but they also have had the same trouble I’ve had. They’ve had imposter syndrome. They’ve been in rooms where they couldn’t understand things they’ve questioned jobs or things they’ve undergone. And she said, you know, it was, it was a simple thing. She said, people may think, but it really, like, I, I wanted to cry. I don’t know why I was so emotional during work <laugh>, but she said, um, you know, if anyone has ever told you that you don’t belong in this community, I’m here to tell you you do.

Speaker 2 00:12:08 And I’m really glad you’re here. And she said it like, it was so friendly and natural. Like it wasn’t like, oh, I’m glad you’re here, you know, thanks for being here. Uh, and so that was really like, I wanted to cry and like, she doesn’t know what all I was going through, but I was like, I had been questioning my worth and value in this community for so long. And that really helped me. And, um, I had lunch with her and her husband, William Great. And um, and Robert, I cannot remember Robert’s last name. He has the hat with the pens, the Wpu pens, uh,

Speaker 1 00:12:38 Windish.

Speaker 2 00:12:39 Yes. He’s wonderful. We had a long conversation. Like we ate lunch and talked, I think for another like 30 minutes to a hour. And, uh, Aida was there too. And just like they talked about like, finding your place in the community and things you can do. And it was exactly what I needed. Like, I, I hadn’t, I hadn’t expressed to anybody how I was like feeling or what I needed and like they gave it to me. So that was probably my most memorable experience and why I’m still in the community. And I got another software development job, <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:13:08 I love it. And I mean, I, I can tell you as a a million times over how much I love that you’re in the community. Um, and I think that we have those like aha pivotal moments. You know, maybe not every single one is the angels descending upon us kind of thing. But we do have those that we can look at and we can point back to and we can say, this is when I felt loved or wanted, or this is when I learned something that really made a difference to me. Um, and I, and I’m gonna tell you at Word Camp us last year in 2022, you getting excited to meet me was one of those moments for me because I was excited to meet you <laugh>. And like, I think we just had this like weird moment where we’re both fangirling over each other and it was so much fun. Um, oh my God,

Speaker 2 00:13:54 <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:13:55 And then we got to spend time together in Asia, and then of course, this year. And, um, you know, there are probably a handful of people in the WordPress community who I text on my phone and I have phone numbers for. And I’m so grateful that I’m never gonna give your, I’m not gonna like publish your phone number, of course, but <laugh>, but where I can text you and like as soon as you see it, you text me right back. And that just makes me happy. So thank you for what you do in the WordPress community. For sure. Thank

Speaker 2 00:14:19 You. I’m honored

Speaker 1 00:14:20 <laugh>. Uh, likewise. Likewise. Um, yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about development. Like you, I do the, uh, I do the, like the outside of development things, like, I, like, I’ll help you sell a plugin. I will you promote people in the community. I’ll do all those kind of things. And I do <laugh>. I do have a plugin in the repository, but I can’t really call myself a developer because it’s,

Speaker 2 00:14:43 You can,

Speaker 1 00:14:44 Well, um, okay, maybe this, this much of a, this much <laugh>, but let’s try turn a little bit. But, um, but yeah, I am constantly just in awe of the fact that developers, like you can type a bunch of what looks like math equations and Greek and everything else. And then like all of the sudden this wonderful things happen. It’s like, when I was a kid, I couldn’t understand how a piece of vinyl could go around in a million circles and I could hear Olivia Newton John sing to me. Like, I’m mystified by all those kinds of things. So tell me a little bit more about, um, what you do as far as development. Are you working on plugins? Are you working on websites? Like, just kind of, you know, lay it down for us.

Speaker 2 00:15:27 Yeah, so I work primarily on websites, building them for people, uh, or helping people with existing websites. Um, and <laugh>, it’s, it’s, I thought the same thing before I got into, uh, web development. I was like, ’cause I, I learned how to code, but I didn’t necessarily want to do web development at first. I actually wanted to, um, build iPhone apps. And now that seems so wild. It, it, it, it was strange for me to say that. Like, I was like, why did I wanna do that? But, um, <laugh>, um, I was in a similar, similar place where I felt the same, but I get to, uh, I work with websites. I am trying to dip my toes into plugins because they’re so fascinating to me. Also, um, I’m doing my own, creating my own blocks. I’m not a designer and I don’t have, like, I’m not an artist. Like, if you don’t tell me how you want your colors and everything like that, it’s going to look terrible, but it’s going to work ’cause I can make it work <laugh>. So, um, I work, uh, dabbling in plugin soon, uh, web development building sites, troubleshooting. I love fixing problems for some reason. So <laugh>, that’s what I do.

Speaker 1 00:16:33 Are you one of those bug hunters? Like do you look for solving pro? Are you a problem solver? Like that kind of thing?

Speaker 2 00:16:40 I want to be, but not in the sense of web development. I would like to actually get into down the line hacking and finding books that way. That’s, that’s something I’ve been very interested in. My first, when I first got into tech, I wanted to do cybersecurity, but Oh, cool. I didn’t, but I’m gonna revisit it. <laugh>,

Speaker 1 00:16:57 I don’t blame you. It sounds like, I remember some of the movies early on in the days of the web, like the net with Sandra Bullock and like sneakers where they were like all these hacker kind of stuff. And it’s like, it looked so, like, to the point where when I first got on the web for the first time I was working, gosh, it was 1990. Yeah, 1993, I think 94. I was working at a college and it was the first time like we got new computers and like there was this thing called the internet suddenly that people could be connected to. And because we were, we were in a work setting, I didn’t have to dial up, there was just no a o l connection, like those kinda things. It was mainframe and all that kinda stuff. And so I remember like, they’re like, the internet’s here, you can surf the web. And I was like, I don’t know what to look for. Like, I didn’t even know. So I live in Rochester, New York. I was like, well, I’m gonna then I’m gonna see if Kodak exists. Of course it did. And I clicked through and I looked at another page and I hit the back button and the link that I had clicked went from like purple to yellow. And I was like, oh my God, they’re gonna know that I was there because

Speaker 3 00:18:04 The link, that page <laugh>,

Speaker 1 00:18:08 But I mean, it was 93, right? Like it was a long time ago. So

Speaker 3 00:18:13 <laugh>

Speaker 1 00:18:13 It’s funny, I agree. But it was, but like, that was the first time that I was realizing that people can see what you do on the web. And so the idea that, you know, that this hacker, um, culture exists for good or bad, right? Because there are good hackers for sure. Um, understand, you can’t understand security until you, you know, you don’t know how to lock a door or make sure a house is locked up and that your locks are gonna work if you, the locksmith can’t figure out how to break into it too. So that makes perfect sense, <laugh>. So, you know, so when you do start hacking, um, just stay away from my, my website’s. Okay. <laugh>.

Speaker 2 00:18:47 I gotcha. Um, I don’t wanna be like, what’s going on in Vegas right now? Did you hear about that? The hackers in Vegas? No,

Speaker 1 00:18:52 Tell

Speaker 2 00:18:52 Me. Oh my gosh. Look that up. Hackers have seized control of like, um, the security information for the M G M hotels. Oh, wow. And you know, M g m owns like a bunch of things in, um, Vegas. They’re saying like, half the strip is like, shut down ATMs, machines, hotels. Wow. Look it up. Look it up.

Speaker 1 00:19:11 I, as soon as we’re done here, I’m gonna be looking that up for sure. They’ll probably know that I looked it up though. I mean, <laugh>

Speaker 3 00:19:17 <laugh>, I had

Speaker 2 00:19:19 A rumor that they actually were paying all, they paid some of the hackers some money, and I was like, oh my God, are you serious? And I’m sitting here like, I typed install wrong today. And like my terminal was like, are you sure about this? And I’m like, oh my God, I’m going to go hack <laugh>

Speaker 1 00:19:34 <laugh>. It’s so funny. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You just never know there’s something going on in the world all the time. And security is definitely an important thing. Um, and I know that people in the past have said like, you know, even <laugh>, like I once built a website that doesn’t exist anymore. His business doesn’t exist anymore, but I built lily’s poop and it was a <laugh>, a guy who would go to your house and pick up all your dog crap in your yard. So like, you know, and I said, oh, you know, I build with word with WordPress. And he is like, I heard that’s not secure. I’m like, okay, it’s a brochure site. Nobody’s doing any, they’re paying you through your website. And now I can say, well, NASA and the, and like the White House are on, on WordPress, so it must be pretty secure. Hmm. I came up with the, we’re number one for your dog’s. Number two. That was my favorite line for that. <laugh>.

Speaker 3 00:20:22 I love that. <laugh>,

Speaker 2 00:20:25 Please bring, bring it back. Bring it back one day.

Speaker 1 00:20:27 I know. Like, where are you, grant? Let’s, let’s do Lily’s Poop Patrol again. <laugh>. Let me move on into our rapid fire questions. I will ask them rapidly. You take all the time you need to answer them. Um, but here we go. Okay. So what are two to three must have plugins that you would recommend to somebody building their own website?

Speaker 2 00:20:44 Query Monitor is one, and Code snippets is another. Uh, reason being, especially now with sites going to F ss e or full site editing, you’re going to want to have query monitor so you’ll know <laugh> which templates you’re using. Especially if you’re doing cust you’re, if you’re creating custom templates in full site editing, that code does not live. Um, oh my God. It doesn’t live in your files anymore, which is, I’m sorry if I’m saying this wrong. I’m, I’m a developer, I promise the code actually lives in the database now. And <laugh> I’ve already run into issues that I’ve kind of fixed, um, around that. So you wanna have, if you’re having a template pool issue, you are want to have query monitor, you’ll want to have it in general, but it’s definitely gonna be good for f s e code. Snippets again, might be really good for F S E if you need to play around with your functions, that p h p file, but you, maybe you don’t have a s uh, FileZilla or a way to get to the files. Why not play around with the code snippets? See if it’ll work before you even go in there and tamper around with the, and edit the file. So those are my two favorite ones. I’m very careful. I break stuff easily. So <laugh>

Speaker 1 00:21:47 <laugh> makes sense. And so that third one makes sense. The third one would be make sure that your site is always backed up, <laugh>?

Speaker 2 00:21:53 Yes, yes. Please, please use a backup plugin <laugh>,

Speaker 1 00:21:56 Use a back and plugin and only edit the staging <laugh>.

Speaker 2 00:22:00 Yes. Especially if you let me get in your site. I’m gonna say, Hey, back this up. <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:22:05 Right. Well, when we work together in the future, I’m gonna make sure that I’ve got a staging site set up just for you. <laugh>, please.

Speaker 2 00:22:10 <laugh>,

Speaker 1 00:22:12 At any point in your WordPress and and coding journey, have you had a mentor, whether it was an official mentor or somebody that you kind of just looked up to and emulated, maybe somebody took you under their wing a little bit? Um, if so, who was it?

Speaker 2 00:22:26 Yeah, so I have two mentors that I am fortunate enough to still get to work with. Um, the first one I met was Kenneth, uh, Elliot. And Kenneth does stuff in the community. He was actually a organizer at work camp US and, um, of work m p s. He was not there. Um, I met him at a Google, a Google Google Developers conference, and we started talking and he was like, Hey, you ever done any WordPress work? And, um, he and Chambe don’t know this, and I don’t know if they’re gonna watch this. I knew what WordPress was when I met them. They always say, oh, now I shouldn’t know what WordPress was. I, I knew what WordPress was. I had a blog, um, <laugh> back in college. Um, but I had always heard that I shouldn’t work in WordPress and I didn’t want to like say that to him.

Speaker 2 00:23:10 So I was like, no, what’s that? And he was like, oh, yeah, we, we should talk about it. And then when it was time for me, I knew how to, I knew how to code at the PO at this point, and I knew P H P and he introduced me to Sean Broom, which was my other mentor, and she gave me my first web development job. I did freelance work under her, and she taught me WordPress. And she also asked me what WordPress was. And I was like, what’s that? And like, I’m ashamed to admit it to them. I, I admit I’ve admitted it on like other podcasts, but I don’t think they’ve listened. <laugh>, I knew what WordPress was, but I was so scared of WordPress. I had never heard anything positive about it, <laugh>. And then, um, but that’s because I was taught, I was listening to people who were, who didn’t use WordPress. Yeah. So they took me over their wing

Speaker 1 00:23:50 And I’ll make sure they hear this episode, don’t worry.

Speaker 2 00:23:53 Oh, thank you <laugh>. I’m like, what? <laugh>. But yeah, they, they both taught me WordPress development and that’s how I, that’s how I got into WordPress. Um, my first job wasn’t WordPress, my first full-time job. It was actually database work for the state of South Carolina. But, uh, I got my part-time job and then it became my full-time job until a few months ago. So I had it for years and it’s thanks to them. And now I get to host the Columbia South Carolina WordPress meetup with them.

Speaker 1 00:24:19 I love it. And I know both of them and they are just amazing people. Absolutely. And I, I got to meet Shabi for the first time in Washington, so it was pretty cool to get to give her a hug and, uh, to really read her. So that was pretty cool, for sure. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay, so you can’t mention Ken or Shabi in this next question ’cause you know, we gotta bring more people into it. So who is somebody that you admire in the WordPress community and why?

Speaker 2 00:24:44 When people ask me this, I always say Michelle. So I can’t say you either. I know <laugh>, I was narrowing down, taking away all my people,

Speaker 1 00:24:50 But thank you. But thank you <laugh>.

Speaker 2 00:24:52 Of course. Um, I really admire say re um, if you don’t know, say she’s also a co-marketing rep. She’s been in the WordPress community for years and she does so much for the project and she’s so passionate for the project and the energy, energy she brings makes you wanna be passionate for the project. And along with you, Michelle and a few other people, she’s the reason why I’m still in the community, honestly. Um, there’s a lot of people in the community and you could, and it’s okay, I’m not judging <laugh> people by what I say. It’s a lot of people in here. They’re just about money. And that’s fine. There’s people there in the community, they’re just about money. And they’ll tell you it’s people that won’t tell you and they’re about money and they’re about what you can do for them. They don’t really care about you or that’s how it seems.

Speaker 2 00:25:39 And, um, if you’re new to the community or you’re somebody navigating it alone, it can be hard to distinguish between those people. It was hard for me when I blew up, I guess on Master and people were asking me who I was and I was like, I’m not Asia <laugh>, that’s it. But, um, say is somebody who, she puts her money where her mouth is, she is a part of the W P C C is trying to get contributors paid, trying to get more people into the project and trying to keep people here. And, um, she’s amazing and she’s somebody I really look up to.

Speaker 1 00:26:14 Yeah. I, I’ll, I’ll, um, I’ll say I agree with that 100%. I think she also may be the only person in more press who talks faster than I do. <laugh>. She’s <laugh> and I think it’s because her energy, like she just has so much energy, it has to go out really fast. Um, but yeah, I agree. And, uh, meeting her last year at work camp US was also, um, very exciting for me. So, um, yeah, a hundred percent. I’m right behind you with that one as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we agree on a lot of things, you and I mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So <laugh>, what’s something that you still want to learn in WordPress but that maybe you haven’t tackled yet?

Speaker 2 00:26:49 Oh my gosh, <laugh>. Um, I wanna learn how to build plugins. I wanna learn how to do, um, use, what is it? Oh God, I wanna mess up. Is it Insta, wp?

Speaker 1 00:27:05 Well, that spins web real fast. Those sites that you can spin up.

Speaker 2 00:27:07 Yep. Yes. I wanna learn that. Um, I wanna learn how to create my own theme. I mean, I know how to do it, but I’m not creative. So I guess I’m gonna learn more ui ux work that I can integrate into WordPress. Um, I wanna learn how to start my own company. I, when I keep, I keep saying this to people and they keep thinking like freelance web development. I don’t wanna start my own freelance web development company. I do some freelancing on the side now mm-hmm. <affirmative> for money. I, I love to keep it like that. I want my own, not that type of company business. And I just wanna learn just more different ways people develop. Um, I’m already learning different ways now at my new job, um, just in the first few weeks. Um, just knowing the different ways that different people do stuff and knowing that it’s so many ways. I’m like, okay, that’s why we’re always so confused, but

Speaker 1 00:27:54 <laugh> <laugh>,

Speaker 2 00:27:56 I wanna learn more development, uh, ways I wanna contribute more. I wanna learn how build loan plugins. It’s just so much.

Speaker 1 00:28:02 Yeah, I agree. And I think it’s interesting, you, you bring up a po a point that like if you ask any group of WordPresses any question, you are not gonna get everybody to say the same answer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, my favorite thing is like in a meetup when somebody says, you know, they’re new and like, who’s the best hosting company? 10 people have 10 different answers. Who’s the best form plugin? 10 people have 10 different answers. <laugh>. Like, it’s, it just look my, it depends, right? The answer is always, it depends, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, figuring out what works for you is what’s important for sure. <laugh>.

Speaker 2 00:28:31 Yes. <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:28:33 What’s one of the biggest mistakes that you’ve made in WordPress and what did you learn from it?

Speaker 2 00:28:40 So <laugh>, when you say mistake, do you mean like, in development or like,

Speaker 1 00:28:47 Whatever you wanna say. It’s been interesting. So just to give you a little background story here. Um, like my, one of my biggest mistakes was not understanding that WordPress doesn’t F t p the same way that like H T M L sites could F T P. So I built an entire site Oh, tried to F T P it someplace else. And of course it didn’t work and I didn’t know how to fix it and how to port it. And this is way back in 2012, I think. And so I literally stayed up all night and rebuilt that site from scratch because I had no idea. So that was a mistake. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, Chris Wigman came on the show and he, and he was working <laugh>, a web hosting company and killed 23,000 websites in a single blow that took three days to get back up. So it could be anything from, I didn’t know how that worked to, oh Poo. I just like, took down half of the internet. So whatever.

Speaker 2 00:29:35 <laugh>, I am very fortunate to never have made a huge mistake that I know of. Um, I’m gonna say one time, I always think about this one time, um, I did a bunch of changes on a site. Um, this is my first time ’cause my web development, that was, that’s a, this is a big disconnect for me. My web development in WordPress was not the same as working for an agency as it was freelance. I didn’t know anything about gulp. I didn’t know anything about Webpac and things like that. Like I did all the work on the staging and then I pushed it, pushed it to production mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I was, uh, pulling from WP Engine down to my computer and pushing it back up for the first time a couple years ago. And <laugh> I went to, I did all these changes to the site and I was so happy and I did it and I did my best anyone for help. And I felt like the woman and I was like, yeah, look at me. Go me. And I think it was like Friday too and I was about to get off and I went to push my changes up, but I didn’t push them. I pulled and I pulled the website and deleted all of my changes.

Speaker 1 00:30:45 Oh no. I can feel your pain. Oh no.

Speaker 2 00:30:49 It <laugh>. Luckily I had been, um, sometimes if I see like a book that’s kind of crazy and I wanna revisit, I’ll save some of the code and like I’ll compress it and like throw it on my, um, external drive. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, luckily, like I had about half of the changes ’cause like halfway through I wanted to save something, I just save the copy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But yeah, it’s still like, that was something I was supposed to end that Friday and it carried on into next week. And I always, anytime I’m pushing and pulling now I had to do it today I had to pull a new site ’cause I was, uh, pulling some sites to my local. I was like, lemme make sure I don’t push <laugh> a blank install and wipe

Speaker 1 00:31:24 This site out. <laugh>. Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:31:30 So, yeah. That, that’s it.

Speaker 1 00:31:32 Uh, yeah. That’s a good one. I like that one. That’s good. And then, and but we do learn, right? So now we learn now, you know, double check <laugh>. Oh yeah. Push those buttons for sure. Well, let’s talk about the opposite of that. What is your proudest WordPress moment? Wow. <laugh>, or one of ’em is the

Speaker 2 00:31:52 WordPress. Um, my proudest WordPress moment was getting hired on at LinkedIn learning as an instructor. Um, the past, I’m gonna say a year and a half, I’ve had the worst and it’s only gotten worse. Imposter syndrome. And it’s like, I couldn’t understand it ’cause I was like, I know, I know how to code and I just didn’t feel like I was good enough WordPress developer. And I was encouraged so many times to like try out for LinkedIn and like, I kept like, I was so nervous. I was like, oh yeah, I’ll do it. And then I, I just knew I wouldn’t, and then they were like, you need to contact them ’cause they wanna talk to you. And I was like, oh, I don’t wanna do it. And um, when I app, when I applied for LinkedIn, it’s a whole process I won’t get into.

Speaker 2 00:32:39 Um, I was told that my first audition video, they were like, 95% of people have to do ’em over. So don’t, don’t worry, don’t stress yourself out. Be natural. If you have to do it over, we’ll give you feedback and you’ll do it over. And I’m like, okay, I’m not that good of a developer. I kind of know what I’m talking about. I’m probably gonna have to do it over. And so I sent in my audition then, uh, the next morning they wrote me back and said, oh, this is great. You don’t have to do this over, we’re gonna send this over. Ooh. And I got the job. <laugh>. That’s,

Speaker 1 00:33:08 That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 00:33:08 Awesome. So that’s my proudest moment. Yeah. I felt it’s imposter syndrome is rough and it’s us. It’s just us on hard on ourselves. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And they were like, yeah, like, we’ll give you money, talk to us, teach us. And I’m like, me. And they’re like, can’t you? I’m like, well, LinkedIn and Microsoft are saying this, then maybe I’m okay. I’m an okay developer. <laugh>,

Speaker 1 00:33:32 I think. Yeah. That’s awesome. I love that. That is, I mean that’s really good. And, and it’s just, it’s, it’s good to have that kind of feedback, especially if you do have imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, and everybody has it from time to time. And when you’ve gone through some rough patches or whatever, that’s when it’s like rears its ugly head and makes you feel like you can’t do. And so to have that kind of feedback, especially like almost immediate, like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that’s good. That helps, you know, you’re in the right place and you’re doing the right thing. So yeah. I’m happy for you. That’s awesome. Thank you. Um, now if you weren’t working in web or technology, what’s another career that you might like to attempt?

Speaker 2 00:34:11 Sugar Baby. I’m just kidding. <laugh>. <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:34:15 <laugh>. I’ll honestly say you’re the first person to ever give that answer on the show. <laugh>.

Speaker 2 00:34:22 I’ve, uh, I should, that’s something I should have looked into when I was learning how to cold, but, um, I,

Speaker 1 00:34:27 I gotta mute myself so I can keep laughing while you tell us the real answer. <laugh>.

Speaker 2 00:34:34 Oh man. Oh, <laugh>. I honestly, so what’s funny is when people ask me this question, it’s actually something that I was going to do before I got into tech. So I used to work in the insurance industry. That’s what I did after college. I was a saleswoman. That’s why I’m, I I’m really good at marketing, marketing rep. Um, I was a saleswoman and I was really good at it, but I was working in the insurance industry and it was one of the worst industries I think you can ever work in, um, in rural South Carolina too. Okay. I was in the capital in rural but South Carolina. And, uh, I said I couldn’t do this anymore and I was looking for other stuff to do and so I was going to become a teacher. Uh, I was gonna teach English overseas and, um, <laugh>, that was another one.

Speaker 2 00:35:20 I was worried ’cause I was, I was very educated. I’m, I’m a college grad, I’m kind of smart <laugh>. I was like, I could do this. And, uh, I was just worried about my southern accent ’cause they didn’t want you to have a southern accent. And my accent was a little bit more southern then. But, um, I got accepted to teach in China, Vietnam, and Japan. And I was going to do it. And I just love, I love traveling. I wanted to leave the country. I wanted to travel, I wanted to do something new. I wanted to meet new people. I wanted to learn new languages, eat new food. And that was the way I could do it. And also help people and give back. So I didn’t do it. I got married and then I got into tech. But if I ever left Tech, I would pick up a suitcase and live out of that suitcase traveling the world, teaching people English and learning their languages as well.

Speaker 1 00:36:10 I love that. Okay. So you went from Sugar Baby, which made me laugh to now I wanna cry ’cause that’s so sweet.

Speaker 2 00:36:16 Oh, <laugh> The sugar baby wasn’t sweet.

Speaker 1 00:36:20 I mean, in a different kind of way. <laugh> in a, in a laugh not cry kind of way. Yeah, for sure. <laugh>. <laugh>. Okay. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna give you another caveat to the next question. ’cause you just talked about wanting to travel in that kind of thing. So travel can’t be your answer to the next question, so you gotta think of a different one. Okay. But what, what is something on your bucket list?

Speaker 2 00:36:41 One thing on my bucket list. I want to be able to speak five languages fluently.

Speaker 1 00:36:46 Ooh.

Speaker 2 00:36:47 Before I am.

Speaker 1 00:36:48 How many do you have now? Earth.

Speaker 2 00:36:50 I could speak English and Spanish. I’m currently learning Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and French.

Speaker 1 00:36:58 Wow. I know. A little Spanish and a little French. And hats off to the rest of those for you. <laugh> <laugh>.

Speaker 2 00:37:05 You best answer. I always get people are like, what? You,

Speaker 1 00:37:08 You’ll be able to do a multilingual podcast podcast at some point. That’d be really cool.

Speaker 2 00:37:12 I would love that. <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:37:14 That’d be pretty cool. For sure. Okay. Show us or tell us about a hidden talent that you have that the WordPress community might not know about.

Speaker 2 00:37:23 I do not have any hidden talents, but something really cool. One of my data nerd friends told me this and I didn’t believe it. ’cause it’s just something I didn’t think about. People might be like, why didn’t you believe it? Um, so I am six foot two. I am American. I’m American woman. Six foot two. I am taller than 99% of all other American women. And I think 90 it was, I can’t remember the men. I’m, I’m taller than also 90 something percent of the men too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I am one of the, if you’ve met me and you’ve been around me and we’ve hang, hung out, you’ve been around one of the tallest women in the United States. And that is so crazy to me. That’s because <laugh>, I know I’m tall, but I’m like, dang. Like there are people taller than me. They’re W N B A players and models, but then you think about 300 million Americans <laugh>. I’m like, okay, yeah. I I get it. I’m in the 1%. That’s the, the closest I’m gonna get to the 1%. We make that joke too.

Speaker 1 00:38:21 So <laugh> the 1%. So I’m only five feet tall and most of the time I’m sitting on a scooter. So I’m shorter even. So, so everybody’s tall to me. My daughter’s five foot six. You’re six foot two. And I honestly thought you were guys were about the same height because I look up, literally look up to everybody. So, um, so now I had no idea you were that tall, even though I’ve been in your presence very many times. <laugh> <laugh>. There’s something new every day. That’s so funny. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, is there anything else you wanna talk about or tell us about before we get to that last question about how we find you online, et cetera? Have I skipped anything that you wanted to say?

Speaker 2 00:38:57 Uh, I don’t know. I’m just, uh, we’re gonna be together soon, like Yeah. At the end of the month for Work Camp Rochester. So I’m keynoting work Camp Rochester and I get to be, I’m excited. Excited. Oh, I’m so happy. Yeah. That’s like, I’m like working in toughing everything out. ’cause I’m like, oh, that’s gonna be my, oh, I get to be with Michelle at the end of the month. So yeah, you should check us out at Work Camp Rochester. It’s gonna be so much fun. I’m such a fun person.

Speaker 1 00:39:22 We’re gonna eat garbage plates and anybody who’s listening who’s not from around here is not a foodie. Has no idea what a garbage plate is. All I have to say is I could tell you what it’s like, but you really have to Google it to see the pictures, read about it, to understand the full experience. But it is, it’s a good hangover cure. It’s also called a heart attack on a plate, but it’s also like so freaking good. So we’re gonna get garbage plates while you’re here for sure. Yes.

Speaker 2 00:39:46 I cannot wait. <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:39:48 So how do people find you? If they’re looking for you online or your website, maybe social media. Give us a couple ways people can get in touch.

Speaker 2 00:39:55 Yeah, you can, uh, check out my website. I am redoing it. I am building it in fse full site editing. So, you know, pray for me <laugh>, um, You can also find me on Twitter. I’m at N NYCoRE, the creator. Um, where else can you find me? Oh yeah, I’m not in that many places anymore. Am I I’m you’re

Speaker 1 00:40:20 Probably gonna be LinkedIn. Yeah, I was gonna say

Speaker 2 00:40:22 I’m, oh yeah, I am a LinkedIn instructor. I have a course coming out. Please check out my course. Just watch. I don’t even have to like, I, I would like if you watch it and like take in the information, but just like play it in the background where you’re cooking or something. Like just get

Speaker 1 00:40:33 <laugh>. Let’s get those views up there. That’s right. For sure.

Speaker 2 00:40:35 So I don’t have to sugar baby <laugh> <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:40:39 Oh my gosh. So if you are listening to this, um, go to WP coffee, found Nayasha’s, find Nayasha’s episode. We will have the links to all of those things there. So you don’t have to like, have written them down. You don’t have to rewind and find them. I will have them all right on for you. Nayasha, thank you so much for taking some time outta your evening to spend with me so I can introduce you to even more people in the world. Um, really appreciate that and I’m so much looking forward to seeing you in person soon too. So thanks for being here.

Speaker 2 00:41:08 Thank you.

Speaker 1 00:41:09 Welcome and everybody else, we will see you on the next episode of WPCoffeeTalk, where I don’t know who it’s gonna be and I dunno where they’re gonna be, but we’re gonna have fun. So see you then.